THE SPIN-OFF: Interview with Rick Ludwin, the Dean of Late Night (Listen Now!)

If you're at all a student of TV -- especially the world of late night -- I hope you'll check out the latest edition of our monthly TV podcast on KCRW, The Spin-Off! In this episode, Joe and I are sit down with Rick Ludwin, who ran NBC late night from 1980 to 2012, and was there for all the big moments -- Carson, Letterman, Leno, Conan, Fallon, Meyers. With the late night world undergoing another big transition, there's a lot to talk about:

We pick his brain about Saturday Night Live, famous late night transitions and reflect on the one-year anniversary of Jimmy Fallon as the host of The Tonight Show. We also look ahead in late night, and ask who could possibly replace Jon Stewart and why there's such a severe shortage of women late night hosts. And we talk about the way late night has evolved as television viewing habits has changed. Fortunately, Ludwin thinks late night still has a long future ahead of it, even if it doesn't look the same as it does now.

Listen by clicking below!

THE SPIN-OFF: Listen to the February Edition of KCRW's Monthly TV Podcast

For the February edition of KCRW's The Spin-Off, the monthly podcast all about the TV business, Joe Adalian, AJ Marechal and I tackle three hot topics:

Big Changes in Late Night: As Jay Leno leaves The Tonight Show the whole chess board in late night is shifting. Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyers will take on new shows, but these days with competition from The Daily Show, The Colbert Report -- not to mention, competition from your DVR -- do the broadcast late night shows matter as much as they once did?

The Olympics and NFL: Once again the Super Bowl did huge ratings numbers. Not surprising as the NFL seems to be the only sure thing on TV these days. Now CBS has lined up a deal to share the broadcast of the NFL Thursday night games with CBS, hoping to get a piece of the live sports pie. This month we'll see if the big dollars NBC spent to get the Olympics will prove worth it.

Bubble Shows: Traditionally, this is the time of years when shows with middling ratings will be considered teetering on the bubble between cancellation and renewal. But these days the definition of the bubble show has changed. It's the era when ratings are influenced by DVR delayed viewing and networks are willing to hold onto shows that may get few viewers but hit a key demo.

We also go around the room to discuss one more hot topic that's on the top of our minds this month. Listen below!

MIKE ON RADIO: Discussing Jay Leno's Exit on KCRW's Morning Edition

On last Thursday's local KCRW airing of "Morning Edition," I chatted at length on the end of "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" and what might be next for the exiting host. Listen:

One Last Night in Burbank: A Teary -- and Rainy -- Farewell for Jay Leno

The rain in Burbank seemed fitting Thursday night, as Jay Leno and "The Tonight Show" said farewell to the city. Leno hosted for 22 years on the (now former NBC) lot, while the show had been produced there since Johnny Carson moved to L.A. in 1972.

I was in a media screening room to watch the finale and summed it up for TVGuide.com:

Kicking off the monologue, Leno promised that this was his last show "for real. I don't need to get fired three times. I get the hint. I get the hint." Later, he added, "I got to tell you, the outpouring from people. It's really been touching. Today Anthony Weiner sent me a photo of his penis looking sad."

Final guest Billy Crystal serenaded Leno with a joke-filled tribute and then introduced a cavalcade of celebrities to sing their own verses, including Jack Black ("If Fallon tanks you'll be back here next year"), Kim Kardashian, Los Angeles Clippers player Chris Paul, singer Sheryl Crow, The Big Bang Theory's Jim Parsons, Carol Burnett and Oprah Winfrey.

In a pre-taped piece, Kevin Bacon, Steve Carell, Bob Costas, Bill Maher, Matt Damon, Mark Wahlberg, Kevin Hart, Charlie Sheen ("Buy NBC and fire everybody") and Dana Carvey gave their advice on what Leno should do next. And President Obama, in the piece, joked that he had no hard feelings about Leno's swipes — and planned to name the host "the new ambassador to Antarctica."

With wife Mavis in the audience, Leno choked back tears as he gave his farewell. "This is the hard part," he said, halting several times to regain composure. "We wouldn't be on the air without you people. This has been the greatest 22 years of my life. I am the luckiest guy in the world."

Leno noted that his parents and brother died early in the show's run. After that, "the folks here became my family. People say, 'Why don't you go to ABC or Fox? But I didn't know anybody over there. These are the people I know... I'm excited for Jimmy Fallon. It's fun to be the old guy and see where the next generation takes this institution. It really is time to go."

Read the full story here, and my exit interview with the host here.

Leno, of course, drove a different car to the studio every day. Here was his parking spot last night:

Mike on Radio: Talking with Kevin & Bean About the Leno/Fallon Transition

I was back on KROQ's Kevin & Bean Show on Friday talking about the latest upheaval in the late night wars -- Jay Leno's retirement and the move (next year) of Jimmy Fallon to The Tonight Show. As always, it was a fun conversation with the guys, and Bean even gave me a chance to plug our 60th anniversary issue. Click on the icon below to listen to Friday's show; My interview starts one hour and 10 minutes (1:10) into the podcast.

Get Over It, Burbank: You Were Going to Lose "The Tonight Show" No Matter What

Let's calm down, folks. The Los Angeles Times reports that Burbank mayor Dave Golonski jokingly will go on a hunger strike if "The Tonight Show" leaves Burbank:

[Golonski]said he is drafting a letter to NBC executives asking them to reconsider the plans to move “The Tonight Show” from Burbank to New York.

“We would be extremely disappointed if the plans to move ‘The Tonight Show’ go through,” Golonski said by phone. “We would like it to remain in Burbank and the region.”

That's fine and good. But others are turning this into a bigger story -- bugging L.A. mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, strangely, or touting New York production tax breaks allegedly being put into place solely to steal away "The Tonight Show."

But here's the thing: This is a case of Jimmy Fallon simply not moving. He's been doing a show in New York. He'll continue to do a show in New York. That show's title will change from "Late Night with Jimmy Fallon" to "Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon." But other than the title switching coasts, nothing is actually physically moving. Jay Leno will still be in Los Angeles, and will very likely host another TV show -- but again, just under a different title (and perhaps for a different network).

There's good reason that Fallon isn't moving to L.A.: NBC tried that with Conan O'Brien -- made O'Brien and his entire team uproot their lives and move to Los Angeles. That didn't quite work out as planned.

I would like to remind Golonski that Burbank already lost "The Tonight Show" -- to Universal City, where Conan hosted the show. Where was Golonski and his wacky fake hunger strike then? If anything, Burbank lucked out: Thanks to the last late night debacle, when Leno (a creature of habit who never left the former NBC lot) took over "The Tonight Show" again, that meant the title returned to Burbank. But it's living on borrowed time: NBC doesn't own its old Burbank lot anymore, it simply leases the production space for Leno. And once Leno goes, even if "The Tonight Show" stayed in Southern California, I can pretty much guarantee it would move to Universal City, where the rest of NBC now resides.

That being said, I was joking today that Leno may never leave his stage -- it may just be a different network that starts paying the rent. But the more that I think about it, that may be a real possibility. So Burbank, you may be losing "The Tonight Show," but you'll always have Jay Leno -- for better or for worse.

Meanwhile, I'm just making an educated guess here, but should Fallon take over "The Tonight Show," I'm pretty sure NBC would move the "Late Night" franchise to Los Angeles (but again, to Universal City -- perhaps even at CityWalk. Sorry, Burbank). That bi-coastal model has worked for NBC since 1982, and it's something CBS now emulates.

Meanwhile, Hollywood.com asked me to comment on where Leno's displaced audience might go once he leaves "The Tonight Show." This is what I told them:

Michael Schneider of TV Guide Magazine, lends his expertise on the subject to Hollywood.com: "In this fragmented TV world, if Leno leaves The Tonight Show, his audience would likely be spread far and wide — it's unlikely one show would be the beneficiary."

"If Letterman outlasts Leno, he'd pick up some of those viewers. Some might stick around to check out Fallon or try Kimmel, but others will likely move on to news shows, syndicated repeats or even their DVR," Schneider adds. "If Arsenio [Hall]'s still on the air at that point (he launches this fall), he could very well pick up a chunk of Leno's audience. But in the end, once Leno's show goes away, his audience may choose another, powerfully seductive late-night competitor: Sleep."

Mike on Radio: Bantering About Fox's New Sports Network and More on KCRW's "The Business"

I'm back on this week's edition of KCRW's "The Business," bantering with the Los Angeles Times' John Horn about:

- News Corp announces their answer to ESPN -- a new cable channel, FOX Sports 1 -- but can they take on this 30-year sports behemoth? - The broadcast channels spend big this pilot season hoping to find something that will stick after a lackluster year. Some familiar names are shooting pilots, including Robin Williams and Greg Kinnear - NBC begins to think about when and how Jay Leno will finally walk away from late night

Listen below!

Retro Friday: Conan O'Brien Edition

In 1993, NBC took a chance on an unknown TV writer named Conan O'Brien, who was tapped to replace David Letterman as the new host of its 12:30 "Late Night" franchise.

O'Brien, of course, started out shaky but eventually developed a loyal fan base. Click on the pic above to watch the opening of Conan's first show.



Above, the opening to David Letterman's final "Late Night" show in June 1993. Dave opens by joking that NBC had just named him "Employee of the Month." Conan just used the same joke on Thursday's "Tonight Show." Coincidence? Or a subtle nod by O'Brien to the fact that he's about to leave NBC under the same cloud that Letterman did?

(Check out the ending of that episode as well here. His description of the host set to replace him, Conan O'Brien, is particularly funny.)



From the first "Tonight Show with Jay Leno," Leno introduces original band leader Branford Marsalis. Wow -- back when it was a bona fide jazz ensemble.



What a cool find -- a rare black and white 1963 clip of "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson."



From the very first episode of "Tonight" in 1954. Host Steve Allen warns: "This show is going to go on forever!" How true he was. (Of course, he was actually talking about the length of the show -- 11:30 to 1.) Allen also downplays the show, warning that it would be "monotonous."

MIKE ON TV: Blame Conan and Jay For My Media Blitz

Video Games - E3 2010 - The Loop

Sorry for the light postings this week -- it's the Television Critics Assn.'s Winter press tour in Pasadena, and for once the networks are giving us some real news.

First it was NBC's whole Jay Leno/Conan O'Brien debacle, and then yesterday Simon Cowell's I'm-leaving-American-Idol-to-start-my-own-show announcement caused quite a stir.

People keep asking me to come on to talk about the news, and being the good media whore, I'm a boy who can't say no.

Above, I talk to G4's "Attack of the Show" on Monday afternoon about Jay/Conangate.

I've also been chatting a lot with reporter Brian Rooney and the fine folks at ABC News -- check out my appearances on "Good Morning America" and "World News Tonight" here and here.

MIKE ON TV: My Conan/Leno TV Punditry Spree

The whole NBC Jay Leno/Conan O'Brien debacle has helped once again unlock by inner media whore -- and I outdid myself in that whoredom today, particularly when I appeared opposite myself on both ABC's "Good Morning America" and CBS' "The Early Show." I also wound up talking to BBC World News America, AP TV News, KABC-TV and KNX Newsradio. Here are a few clips (click on the pic for each):


AP Television News


Good Morning America


KABC Channel 7

Has Jay Leno Been Subliminally Telegraphing His Desire to Return to "The Tonight Show"?

Check out this screen grab from the opening credits of NBC's 10 p.m. talk strip "The Jay Leno Show."

Notice anything odd?

Oh wait, there's a shot of Leno's old "Tonight Show with Jay Leno" logo, right smack behind him! A nod to his past... or a tiny signal he's trying to send to NBC brass? (In this shot, imagine him pointing his finger directly at Jeff Zucker. "GIMMIE MY EFFING TIME SLOT BACK!")

It's just a bit odd, after all, that a flash of the old "Tonight Show with Jay Leno" logo would appear on NBC's air, night after night, right as NBC attempts to establish "The Jay Leno Show" and "The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien" as two new, separate brands. Why confuse the issue, even for a split second?

Meanwhile, as you probably heard by now, there's plenty of talk that NBC is mulling a plan to move Leno back into the 11:30 p.m. slot -- and possibly the "Tonight Show" chair as well. Where does that leave Conan? It's unclear. Read my Variety piece on today's hullabaloo here.

Jay Leno Does KNBC No Favors

As NBC stuggles at 10 p.m. with "The Jay Leno Show," NBC stations across the country are watching their 11 p.m. newscasts take a dip in the ratings as well. Los Angeles' KNBC is no exception: The station's 11 p.m. newscast is down 26% vs. last year so far this fall in the key adults 25-54 demographic.

Of course, Jay can't be completely to blame -- especially because KNBC is down a less stunning 5% at 10 p.m. compared to last year. But it doesn't help. I've got more details at Variety:

KABC continues to lead the 11 p.m. race among adults 25-54 -- the demo of choice for advertisers on newscasts. But through last Friday, the station's weekday late news is down 14% from last year (1.9, from 2.2).

The real drop, however, is at KNBC, which has slumped 26% year to year, posting a 1.4 rating vs. a 1.9 last year. The Peacock-owned station has likely been hit hard by "Leno's" low ratings. (KNBC, though, is down a relatively tame 5% at 10 p.m. in the 25-54 demo.)

KNBC also went through a major anchor shift earlier this year as longtime Channel 4 presence Paul Moyer exited.

Only station posting a gain at 11 p.m. is KCBS, which is averaging a 1.2 rating in the demo -- up 20% from last year's 1.0. Station may be helped by CBS' strong 10 p.m. performers and has also unleashed a major marketing campaign for its newscast rebrand.

The Jay Leno Experiment Starts Tonight

My Variety take on how "The Jay Leno Show" would impact NBC and its rivals in success -- or failure:

What if it works? What if it doesn't?

NBC finally takes the wraps off "The Jay Leno Show" Monday night -- and just about everyone inside and outside the Peacock expects a big turnout on day one.

It's what happens in the following weeks and months that is anyone's guess. Once the initial interest in the primetime "Leno" wears off, talk will likely turn to whether it's actually a success -- and what sort of impact it has had on rivals ABC and CBS.

The bar already has been set pretty low for the show overall, with the benchmark expectation that it will average a 1.5 rating in the 18-49 demo. NBC insiders hope the debut at least matches what the finale of "The Tonight Show With Jay Leno" did in May, a 3.4.

Considering that Fox's relatively unknown "Glee" pulled off the same rating for its premiere last week, it would be a shock if Leno couldn't at least match that number.

More likely, "Leno" will do at least a 5 rating (something that some NBC execs are more realistically expecting) -- or perhaps even higher.

"I'm sure they've already written the press release for the first night," said one rival exec. "For the first week there will be plenty of lookie-loos. We're not going to know for a while."

Read on here.

Retro Friday: Late Night Edition

As Jay Leno hosts his final "Tonight Show" tonight, and Conan O'Brien takes over on Monday... here's another blast from the past. From 1982, the first episode of "Late Night with David Letterman."

And here's a quick retrospective of Johnny Carson's 30 years as host of "Tonight," from his final show:

Los Angeles Magazine Hunts for "Mister L.A."

Which showman mosts personifies L.A.? Los Angeles magazine, which last year made waves for its 64 Greatest Things in L.A. poll, is this time looking to crown Mr. LA.

The candidates include Bob Baker, Eli Broad, Huell Howser, Magic Johnson, Jay Leno, Steve Lopez, Chris Nichols, Charles Phoenix, Wolfgang Puck, Kevin Roderick, Vin Scully and Eddie "Piolin" Sotelo.

Of course, there are plenty of names that didn't make the list -- what about Stan Chambers? (Of course, that would add one more old-white-guy to a list chock full of 'em.) But that's the point -- getting the conversation going.

Over at LA Observed, Roderick admits to being a bit embarrassed by the attention, and throws his lot behind Vin Scully. And Metblogs LA writers and readers toss a few more names out there: Ray Bradbury, Beck, Eric Garcetti and Jonathan Gold.

I'd also toss out Tom LaBonge -- but it appears that he was left off the list because the magazine actually crowned him "Mister LA" in their April issue. The mag said it was that designation that sparked this new poll. (Now, is "Ms. LA" to come?)

MIKE ON TV: Leno on NBC Primetime, Smart Move or Desperate Play?

Back on G4's "Attack of the Show" today, I discuss Jay Leno's big move to 10 p.m. next fall -- the how, why and what of it all. Meanwhile, that "testicle" crack I make comes off as a non-sequitur out of context; I'm referring to a sketch that appeared earlier on the show.

Leno Thoughts

You may have seen this pic in the newspapers. Above, in a fairly cheesy staged shot, Jay Leno -- in bald cap and fake goatee -- poses as a TV critic with NBC Entertainment co-chairmen Ben Silverman and Marc Graboff. Leno showed up to NBC's TV Critics press tour event on Monday, in an attempt to make light of gossip that he plans to bolt for ABC once he leaves "The Tonight Show" next year.

But there was a local, bloggy angle to all this. When Leno walked into the Beverly Hilton ballroom where NBC was holding its press conference, the talk show host grabbed a random, unclaimed press credential:



Yep, he was wearing the name tag intended for my Variety colleague -- and DodgerThoughts blogger Jon Weisman. Jon writes more about his imposter here.

Liveblogging the Returns of Leno and Conan

I spent the evening liveblogging the returns of "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" and "Late Night with Conan O'Brien" over at Variety's strike blog; check it out.

A few highlights:

11:35 -- Nevermind Huckabee. Chingy? Really? Memo to Chingy: Crossing picket lines isn't "crunk." Wait, unless "crunk" is a bad thing. But I don't think it is.

11:36 -- "A Jew, a Christian and a Muslim walk into a bar..." And with that, Leno is pulled off the air for another two months.
Joking. Leno doesn't deliver the punch line, instead adding, "See, I have no idea what they say because there's no writers!"
But wait a minute, isn't that non-joke a joke? Didn't someone write the joke about there not being a joke?
OK, now I'm confusing myself. But somewhere across town, a WGA leader is probably wondering the same thing.

11:37 -- First NBC joke! "Do you know there are actually more people picketing NBC now than watching NBC right now?" (NBC execs are flying down to Boca today for the big annual GE confab. I'm sure the head of turbines just emailed this to Silverman and Graboff.)

11:38 -- Leno explains why he came back: "We have essentially 19 people putting 160 people out of work. We continue to support the Guild. But, I think it's easy to empathise with those people if you see the faces of the people who work here. Like Bob, out lighting guy." Cue obese slob with a flashlight. Oh, below-the-line folk, you're so below-the-line!

11:39 -- Wait, did Leno just out his wife as a scab? Yikes. "I'm doing what I did the say I started. I write jokes and wake my wife up in the middle of the night and say, 'Honey, is this funny?' So if this monologue doesn't work it's my wife's fault."
Yup, there goes Mavis' WGA card. (Mavis gets a big cheer from the crowd.)
...

12:40 -- "With all the late night shows off the air, Americans have been forced to read books and occasionally even speak to one another, which has been horrifying," Conan says. Ahh, if that were only true. Unless, by "reading books," he means, "Watching 'I Love New York 2,'" and by "speaking to one another," he means, "TiVoing 'The Hills' so that you can try to convince your wife that it's a fun show to watch together." (Still trying on that one, BTW.)

12:40 -- Conan gets much more forceful than Jay on the WGA issue: "I want to make this clear, I support their cause -- these are very talented, very creative people who work extremely hard and I believe what they're asking for is fair," he says to applause.

12:41 -- "Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to start by talking about my beard. That's right, I know this looks fake. It looks like it ties on in the back, but believe it or not I actually grew a beard. I never grew a beard in my entire life. I grew it out of solidarity for my writers, and to prove that I have some testosterone.

Truest statement of the night: "The biggest comment I'm getting the last couple of days is that I look like the character of Kris Kringle in 'Santa Claus is Coming to Town.'" (See above; he's right.)

Retro Friday: Los Angeles' Lame Millennium

Above, coverage from KABC (Harold Greene and Laura Diaz, now both at KCBS) of the festivities in Los Angeles as 1999 turned into 2000. And what a sad, sad recap of festivities it is. Clip begins with Carlos Granda in Van Nuys, where he admits that not too many people showed up at first, but that "2,000 or 3,000 are here now." Uh, how about maybe 200. But you know us journalists, not so hot with numbers.

Later, at about 4 minutes in, it's the famed one-night-only Hollywood sign lighting. Jay Leno is there to help Richard Riordan flip the switch -- and can't help but comment on the lameness of it all. "It doesn't get any cheesier than that," he says.

Oh, but Jay, you weren't watching KABC. Less than ten seconds after the clock struck midnight, Greene chimes in, "A friend of mine at the Los Angeles Police Department asked me to reiterate this: Please do not fire off guns." Happy New Year!

And now, a bonus clip:



It's Guy Lombardo's last New Year's Eve, telecast on CBS as 1976 turned into 1977. The entertainer synonymous with New Year's Eve passed away later that year.

Scenes from the Strike Front

Jay Leno and striking scribe at NBC


Jay Leno visits NBC, bearing Krispy Kremes this morning


Leno meets the cameras at NBC's Bob Hope Drive. Leno said it was too soon to tell what will happen with “The Tonight Show” – dark for the time being – if a strike drags on. “We’ll take it one day at a time,” he said.


Julia Louis-Dreyfus lends her support at Warner Bros. “My husband is a member of the WGA and I’m a member of SAG, so I’m here in solidarity,” she said.


Toddler gets into the act at NBC


Picketers, carrying a mix of old and new WGA On Stike signs, at Warner Bros.


Strikers stock up on snacks and water at Warner Bros.


Big crowd at Disney, where "Lost" exec producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse were among the writers marching outside.

For more details, check out Variety's strike blog here, and full coverage here.

Also, check me out talking about the strike tonight on ABC's "World News with Charles Gibson."